Simon R Green
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Spoilers! Hell to Pay Plot Discussion
http://simonrgreen.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=302
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Author:  daximite2020 [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:17 am ]
Post subject:  Spoilers! Hell to Pay Plot Discussion

Hello, everyone! A pleasure to be here. I discovered Mr. Green's writings a few months ago, and I've come to enjoy them more with every book! (And in case you were wondering, I'm an American, for whatever that's worth. :D)

In any case, I just finished Hell to Pay and enjoyed it, but there was one thing about its plot that's irritating me.

When John talks with Polly, Polly says that the spell that grants him immortality trumps all other spells and surgeries which might make him more female. However, how can Polly be immortal? It sort of shoots the whole clause of the Griffon's contract in the foot... and then Polly dies, regardless.

Is there something I'm missing?

Author:  Alyindar [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spoilers! Hell to Pay Plot Discussion

If you recall, there wasn't a spell that granted the Griffin's family immortality, but a deal with the devil. I took that as the clause that prevented transformation magics from working on Polly - the devil is in the details, after all. As to why Polly was able to die, I interpreted that as immortality does not equate to invulnerability. It's a smudged line in any case, but not all that unreasonable.

Author:  Valentine Wolfe [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spoilers! Hell to Pay Plot Discussion

I don't quite recall all of the details but as Alyindar said I don't believe they were invulnerable they just didn't age or die of natural causes but could still be killed like anyone else but I can't recall all of the details.

Author:  Hilde [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spoilers! Hell to Pay Plot Discussion

It definitely was something along those lines. Immortals, in the SRG universe, tend to be very sturdy so to speak, but still can be killed if you know how.

The only exception so far seems to be Mr Stab, but that may just be because no one has found the right way of killing him yet (and I hope they never do, I quite like that character).

Author:  Alyindar [ Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spoilers! Hell to Pay Plot Discussion

I've thought of Mr. Stab as more of a transient being than an immortal man, the fear and mystery surrounding Jack the Ripper's legacy made manifest. Although Mr. Stab made personal references to his deeds in Old London Town, that may just be the transient being projecting what made him exist.

Thinking laterally, there may have been more to the deal for immortality, perhaps reaching a certain age or performing a certain act. Since John was able to right the Griffin's children, their spouses, as well as Melissa out of the contract, I'm sure there were contingencies that needed to be fulfilled (and likewise, broken) that applied to the descendants of the Griffin.

Author:  adson3492 [ Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spoilers! Hell to Pay Plot Discussion

I think there was something similar in Hex and the City when Taylor goes to Rat's Alley to find Hearn the Hunter too, but it may have just been the quote and not the alms.

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Author:  Hilde [ Thu Jan 01, 2015 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spoilers! Hell to Pay Plot Discussion

There's actually something about immortals being able to die in The Bride Wore Black Leather.
Basically in most cases immortality means they don't age past a certain point, and they don't die of natural causes.
And depending on how they became immortal, invulnerability (to whatever degree) may or may not be included in the package.
I'm guessing that in the case of Paul/Polly, it wasn't at all.

Author:  Darth Sparhawk [ Sat Jun 04, 2016 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spoilers! Hell to Pay Plot Discussion

In one of the books Simon said that you are immorrtal only until somebody kills you and after that you become long-lived.

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